There were definitely other RPG/wargamer collectibles merchants out there in the '80s besides Zocchi:  in addition to Crazy Egor and the Dungeon Hobby Shop/Mail Order Hobby Shop itself, there were a number of folks who published catalogs/newsletters, and offered OOP materials via mail order (I distinctly remember a few of these being based in CA, Chicago, and AZ, for example, although I don't remember their names or if they were associated with a distributor or retailer either).  Also, most local conventions had (and still have) auctions and/or flea markets, too (DunDraCon's flea market is always worth digging through, for example).

Hi,

I think that a couple of other indirectly major events ~1999-2000 were the publication of the Silver Anniversary products, and the release of the Dragon Magazine CD-ROM archive.  I expanded my own "Dark Angel Collectibles" trading network into eBay due to expanding interest caused by Silver Anniversary, 3E publication and the Dragon CDs.  These events coincided to a degree to significantly grow the collector base, turning new and returning players into casual collector-historians.  For a lot of people, old games and magazines were not affordable enough to get into until these editions were released; and finally having The Dragon #1, L3, the pastel reprints, Strategic Review etc. readily available brought a lot of heightened awareness of D&D's history and collection viability.

A lot of the new collectors during that time had questions in common which reached critical mass with Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz et al becoming more visible on the various forums.  Subscriber mail lists and special interest groups were everywhere before then, but 3E was arguably the first D&D generation that looked to the net first for their gaming, history and collecting answers.  The Wizards takeover, with them being warmer than the ice-cold TSR approach to fan sites (kill em all), also engendered a lot of remote communication which grew the collector community by leaps and bounds.

The Sutherland benefit was a huge collector community builder as well - I think that history is here.

I would argue that our hobby actually started to die ~2005-2008, with heightened edition wars and factionalization, the perceived mockery of 1E via Hackmaster and hate sites, a lack of new blood and the abandonment of legal .pdfs available for sale; but it was revitalized by the OSR and the strong return of old school artists and designers like Otus, Ward, Kask, Mentzer, Jaquays etc.  The future is electronic, but I think the new generation of collectors following ourselves has been (belatedly) ensured.  These items will retain value beyond our own time.

darkseraphim wrote:Hi,

I think that a couple of other indirectly major events ~1999-2000 were the publication of the Silver Anniversary products, and the release of the Dragon Magazine CD-ROM archive.  I expanded my own "Dark Angel Collectibles" trading network into eBay due to expanding interest caused by Silver Anniversary, 3E publication and the Dragon CDs.  These events coincided to a degree to significantly grow the collector base, turning new and returning players into casual collector-historians.  For a lot of people, old games and magazines were not affordable enough to get into until these editions were released; and finally having The Dragon #1, L3, the pastel reprints, Strategic Review etc. readily available brought a lot of heightened awareness of D&D's history and collection viability.

A lot of the new collectors during that time had questions in common which reached critical mass with Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz et al becoming more visible on the various forums.  Subscriber mail lists and special interest groups were everywhere before then, but 3E was arguably the first D&D generation that looked to the net first for their gaming, history and collecting answers.  The Wizards takeover, with them being warmer than the ice-cold TSR approach to fan sites (kill em all), also engendered a lot of remote communication which grew the collector community by leaps and bounds.

The Sutherland benefit was a huge collector community builder as well - I think that history is here.

I would argue that our hobby actually started to die ~2005-2008, with heightened edition wars and factionalization, the perceived mockery of 1E via Hackmaster and hate sites, a lack of new blood and the abandonment of legal .pdfs available for sale; but it was revitalized by the OSR and the strong return of old school artists and designers like Otus, Ward, Kask, Mentzer, Jaquays etc.  The future is electronic, but I think the new generation of collectors following ourselves has been (belatedly) ensured.  These items will retain value beyond our own time.

There are a lot of good points here. I'd like to think that the rise of Garycon (from the Lake Geneva Gaming Con or LGGC before it), along with cons like North Texas RPG con which focus on old school gaming, had a part.  Don't forget the publications that came out of Garycon, NTRPG Con, and even Gen Con (the special 1st edition versions of some of the Goodman Games DCC modules) that appeal to even the casual collector crowd (the Wee Warriors reprints, the limited digests sold at Gary Con and NTRPG con, etc).   I've noticed many other cons now (for example, Total Con) seem to have been scheduling more and more "old school" type gaming in the last four-five years.  Someone can back me up here, but when looking for old school games (AD&D, Basic D&D, etc) in convention catalogs, there were very few to choose from in some large conventions (in some cases, none to choose from) during the years you mention, DS. The selections have definitely risen in the last decade or so.

Mike B.

The sudden (and uneven) re-emergence of Judges Guild has to figure in any discussion of the OSR movement.  Judges Guild nostalgia is actually quite influential among OSR players...and it is what drew me here.  

There were also OSR projects online that seemed to be pioneers of the OSR movement.  The "Back In Print Project" is little discussed here, but was alive and working before I knew anything about the OSR.  Now, the AD&D books are literally back in print, so it seems to have worked.

As for numbers of OSR players, one place to start would be to look at the recent Frog God Games Rappan Athuk Kickstarter.  Extrapolate at roughly five OSR players for every Rappan Athuk project supporter and you have an idea of the numbers of hardcore OSR players.  (Others might debate the ratio - or suggest another project as a baseline.  I think five to one is appropriate as a rough guess.)  Add to that the fact that OSR interest has drawn the attention and participation of many of the old school writers, editors and artists and you get an idea of the numbers in the solid cadre of OSR people.

sauromatian wrote:

darkseraphim wrote: the perceived mockery of 1E via Hackmaster

Perceived? More like outright mockery

More accurately, it was contractually mandated parody.  But the Kenzerco guys love old school stuff.  A good argument could be made that Hackmaster was a significant early (if not first) OSR idea.

Do I get an XP bonus for being member number 2 on the forums behind Foul?

FoulFoot wrote:You do, but you also need to roll a save if you enter the chatroom.  It doesn't like Australians.

A save vs. ...? =)

It's hard to believe that it has been almost 10 years here. I remember in the days before AOL, ordering 1st edition materials out of a 40+ page newsprint catalog. It wasn't Zocchi but it was from a large distributor. My favorite find before the days of AOL involved driving over 100 miles to a gaming store across the state because a friend of mine who had recently came back from a vacation had read on a cork bulletin board about a seller of a woodgrain set. I drove to the store, found the flyer, drove to the person's house and bought the set.    E-bay makes things much eaiser but sometimes not as memorable.

I completed most of my collecting about 7 years ago.

I logged on yesterday because I have been receiving e-mails about the kickstarter documentary project and wanted to add to the conversation here. I also like seeing what other people are collecting. Other than that I check in periodically to see if there have been any new discoveries that I might be interested in pursuing. I have purchased many items from collectors here. I remember purchasing some things from Badmike, I believe it was from a text list he had on AOL but I could be mistaken about that. I also purched several items from Aaron Leeder before he started Noble Knight Games. About half of my collection was lost 7 years ago in hurricane Katrina. I also gave away a lot of items to some of my friends who had lost their entire collections. I try to use as much of my material as I can when designing adventures.

Here's are some of the highlights of things that I have collected over the years.
I don't collect multiple editions or limited editions.  
I also don't collect editions after 3.5, so all of the lists below are only D&D, AD&D, 2nd ed, 3e & 3.5.

Completed - Dungeon Magazines
Completed - Polyhedron Magazines
Destroyed - complete Planescape collection
Destroyed - complete Spelljammer collection
Destroyed - complete Dragonlance collection
Destroyed - complete Grayhawk collection
Completed - D&D modules (A1 to XS2), AD&D modules, 2nd edition modules
Completed - Forgotten Realms (includes novels and comics but not video games or adventurer's guild modules)
Destroyed - complete Mystara collection (Hollow World, gazateers, Rules Cyclopedia, etc..)
Destroyed - complete Darksun collection
Destroyed - complete Lankhmar collection (still have my Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser novels)
Destroyed - complete Ravenloft collection (except for Van Richten guides I still have those)
Completed - pre-painted plastic minitures line (from harbinger to demonweb)

I never had the oppertunity to go to GenCon or any large convention other than one trip to DragonCon.
I spend most of my time designing campaigns for my players and putting them through the gauntlet.

So there you have it.