I think this is a UK-specific thing, which is why it may not have come up before. In the UK, books are zero-rated for VAT (value added tax), so do not attract a charge. Ebay's advice was wrong, there is nothing illegal (or even morally wrong) about marking books as books. I have appealed customs charges on D&D modules before, and been refunded the charge.

But the problem is that the package won't be delivered until the buyer has paid the fee, plus a handling fee (£8 last time I looked). The buyer can then appeal the charge, which I have done in the past, but if the sender has not marked "books" on the customs slip, the handling fee is not refunded, which can leave a bad taste in the buyer's mouth.

So I implore sellers sending stuff to the UK, please do stay within the law, but if they're books write "books". If it's miniatures or something else then all bets are off!

Not trying to defend bad behaviour here. Your buyer could have appealed the charge himself rather than getting all cross about it. But he would still be out of pocket by £8.

Similar in Canada, books attract a 5% tax, games or most anything else is 13% (in my province). Handling fee is $10 plus tax.  I've appealed in the past to have the correct/lower rate applied. It's a nuisance to do so.

If it looks like a duck.....

Skullhammer wrote in "cougarrinard" scams himself into eBay trouble.:Just to play devil's advocate - what is the definition of a "game" then?  In my mind, this situation isn't clear cut.  It's not outlandish to say that something you "play" is a game and something you read for entertainment or education (text book, novel, etc...) is a book.  I can see this going either way.  That said, I can appreciate someone deciding where this line is for themselves and then consistently sticking with it.

For VAT purposes it's "printed paper", so unambiguous in terms of this discussion. It's the medium rather than the content. I guess a "game" would be a board game with plastic pieces and associated paraphernalia.

Hey everyone, this is why I am not trying to be some kind of evil US seller making international customers suffer customs duty fees out of spite:

13 U.S. Code § 305 - Penalties for unlawful export information activities

(a) Criminal Penalties.—
(1)Failure to file; submission of false or misleading information.—
Any person who knowingly fails to file or knowingly submits false or misleading export information through the Shippers Export Declaration (SED) (or any successor document) or the Automated Export System (AES) shall be subject to a fine not to exceed $10,000 per violation or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both


In this case, altering "merchandise" to become "books" IS misleading, and therefore a crime in the USA if caught, because even though the merchandise is indeed books, these books were purchased through a documented point of sale.  This is not the same as sending to a friend or loved one overseas, free of charge (gift), an interesting book or something similar that is not available in their nation. (One imported version of this I can think of: for years,  family friends from New Zealand sent Engagement Calendars loaded with photos of beautiful New Zealand scenery, Maori culture and so forth, to my parents free of charge, along with lots of  used stamps for my siblings and me (we used to collect stamps when we were kids). Now on the other hand, if my family purchased this Engagement Calendar (a a desk calendar booklet, really) plus unused versions of these New Zealand stamps, then it would be merchandise and therefore subject to possible import-charge duties.

Of course, this law goes on and on for things of much greater consequence than books sent from US to the UK (or any other country) but between possibly losing sales for complying with US customs laws, or having not only an instant criminal record, but also a big fat felony, I am going to play it safe. I am not a fan of adding on fees to perfectly good buyers (not Cougie, by the way), but I am even more not a fan of facing up to five years of imprisonment. Apparently UK law (which I do not know) is more customer-friendly than US law in this regard, but because I am a US subject governed by US laws, I kind of have to follow them.

Sorry to disappoint some potential buyers out there. As said, I will certainly help pay for shipping if warranted.  I had to get this out of my system before going any further with this thread. New post up tomorrow night, moving along.


---Pauly

cgould42 wrote in "cougarrinard" scams himself into eBay trouble.:It is an interesting topic concerning book vs. game.
For imports into the USA there is an official ruling from 1989 that was upheld in 1991.

1991
https://rulings.cbp.gov/ruling/089971

1989
https://rulings.cbp.gov/ruling/085214

Ultimately the product was ruled as a game as the more specific description takes priority over a general description.

That said even in the ruling they mention than nations are free to decide the ultimate classification of goods entering their boundaries.

Cheers,
Curt

Wow!! That is even specific to RPGs   ... I can see the point about specificity over generalness, hence a book may be classified differently if it contains particular information (e.g. bomb-making!)

Evidence for:
(4.) My decision not to inform him (like I informed other people) about the imminent posting of my now-sold 2nd Alpha Print DMG.

(5.) His deliberate Negative Feedback, methodically placed one at a time in attempts to undercut and disrepute me, in an effort to sabotage the bidding on the 2nd alpha Print DMG (which sold pretty  well given its well-documented mediocre condition), which were subsequently removed one at a time by eBay before the 2nd Alpha Print DMG listing closed.

Before going any further, I want to mention Cougie's lack of compliance in paying for the third item ("G1: Steading of the Hall Giant Chief" led me to filing an Unpaid Item Case. He promptly paid, I took a bazillion extra photos of the module and all stages of it being packaged, and sent it to him almost immediately afterward.

Moving right along . . .

Around the time of the big "arguments" that led to my abruptly ending further business with him (this is only the second time I have ever done this to someone since I have been on eBay since 2014) I decided to be purposely vague with Cougie, regarding what else I had in stock, but not yet posted on eBay. While I do have a pretty open policy answering these questions and being honest about what desired items might be in my inventory, just his approach and tone unnerved me. I am fully aware many of my items get purchased by resellers, but as long they are good transaction partners and agreeable, I am fine with resellers since reselling is part of reality---otherwise items would not get circulated and recirculated as much as they do on eBay and elsewhere. i am not jealous if they resell the item they brought from me for more, partially because this is business reality and partially because I attained the items when the market was a heck of a lot slower. I also normally don't laugh if the resellers get burned after buying my stuff for inflated final-bid prices and then expecting to sell the items for stratospheric prices, but instead getting a fraction for what they bought it from me. (Okay, I am a human being and couldn't help but burst out laughing when a flippant and flamboyant reseller who will remain safely anonymous since he paid right away and left nice feedback got big time burned---maybe I ought to go to Confession for that?) But there was no way in HELL I was going to let Cougie know that I had acquired the Second Alpha Print DMG that I have described in another post (I had to sell it almost immediately due to real-life demands.)  I strongly sense Cougie is IP-banned from this place, but still finds a way into here anyway perhaps through gullible cronies or whomever.

So if you're reading this, Cougie, or had someone screencap this thread for you, realize than on behalf of all of the terrible things you have done to reputable eBayers here on the Acaeum and elsewhere, there is no freaking bloody way I would have entertained the thought of you possibly bulling into the 2nd Alpha Print DMG auction, winning it, and then finding a way to scam me.  (And then reselling it for an insane price---you are not part of to my tolerance and occasional goodwill to respected resellers., and nobody in their right mind would respect you as a seller, once they were aware of the truth.) That is why I ended our distressingly bad eBay connection BEFORE posting the thing on eBay. And I also sense that is also why you methodically and deliberately placed three fraudulent (and quickly removed) negative Feedbacks, like well-placed torpedoes from a U-Boat---but if your intention was to maliciously destroy my tiny business even though my only direct competition is my presence on eBay UK, then you failed spectacularly. Not only did you fail to sabotage the final-bid potential of the 2nd Alpha Print (it sold for a very agreeable but fair price given its less-than-pristine, musty  condition), but I sicced eBay on you, big time.

Did I sic eBay on you out of spite? Or jealousy? Absolutely not. I worked at a major casino for 21 years and interacted with a lot of the most obnoxious scammers and cheaters  on earth, especially those with pockets deep enough to buy out your entire inventory without breaking a sweat, if they so cared. Cougie, I don't care about how long you have been selling for, or how many pounds-sterling you have grossed over the years. In my mind a new but ethical seller with limited inventory but a winning attitude is way, way more desirable a trading partner, than someone who thinks the rules are made to be bent and broken, and competitors are made to be destroyed under any means possible. Kind of like what YOU do , Cougie.  I sure as hell hope that this thread, along with the endless but old archived threads here on the Acaeum and elsewhere,  wake up and alert honest and innocent eBayers who have NO IDEA what kind of trouble they are going to get into when they do business with you, and fall for your shady tricks and schemes, or using direct-mail as a means of circumventing the protection of eBay (which helps you, but undermines any real evidence your gullible partners have against you since they did not stick to communication through eBay-specific channels).

But I rant and digress . . .

During this period, there were no more eBay emails from Cougie. I wanted to make sure the 30-day return period had come and gone before blocking him, and even marked the days for each item on the calendar. (I quickly learned that I could block, but leave messages open anyhow, so got the block in right after conversing with eBay). By this point I was spending an average of an hour a day on the phone with eBay during this stretch, beginning with the falsely applied feedback. This time and stress severely undercut my time posting new items, since there are other things in my life that needed my attention. Part of me wishes I recorded the phone calls on my end with their consent, just as I had given them the standard consent to record the phone call for customer service/training purposes. But at the same time, there are lines I will not cross no matter how tempting they may be. But I will say, however, that I pleaded eBay several times to really, go through this guy's account, really going deeply through messages and everything else to discover what other sort of terrible things , or threats, he was doing to other eBayers. I also asked more than once for them to do a quick Google search for "cougarrinard" or "cougar_rinard" and behold all of the damning things that pop up about Cougie, clustered here on Acaeum, on dragonsfoot,  and elsewhere---to really understand and accept the reality they were allowing a big-time scammer to use eBay as a front to carry on his dirty unethical business.

At first, eBay gave me lip service about this, but seemingly a lot of it went in one corporate ear and out the other. After all, how much more heinous could Cougie's behavior get after deliberately sending three negative feedbacks meant to destroy my little business that was apparently too close for his comfort though I'm clear across the other side of the pond from him? As shall be revealed in the next couple posts, it got REALLY  heinous, to the point where eBay initially broke its own rules to side with him regarding how the three items purchased from me were supposedly "counterfeit" with zero photographic evidence from him, despite mountains of my own photographic evidence supporting their authenticity, submitted or ready to be submitted at a moment's notice. Though I will never be able to prove it, I have a well-founded hypothesis that Cougie bribed a UK eBay employee (or employees) in the right places  to make sure he initially won the "counterfeit" claim with zero evidence. But that will be covered in the next posting. Also, I will mention where I messed up a bit, leaving false positive feedback warning eBayers to do the Google search mentioned before doing any business with him. I will also have his final, melodramatic and ridiculous---not to mention EXTREMELY immature----direct mail to me before I blocked him from contacting me at my email address.


Again, I hope I'm not boring you good folks. My aim is not to whine or make myself or my sole proprietorship look good, but to inform and warn (or remind) people about just how terrible Cougie's business really is. I  fervently hope as word gets around about not only my experiences, but others as well, lots of reputable UK and EU sellers will step up and take a big, big chunk out of his business, and lots of reputable UK and EU buyers do the same. I know Cougie's business is quite large given the line of business, but businesses whose ethics are rotten to the core, tend to rot at the core and collapse on themselves once people are fully aware and informed. Ultimately this also helps eBay, since so many people now no longer use eBay to buy/sell D&D related stuff, but instead go to places like invite-only Facebook groups which themselves are not immune to scammers. It's in eBay's best interest to be purged of scammers using eBay as a front to do their dirty work.


Coming up next time:


"(6.) His claims all my items sold to him were counterfeit, though I had a mountain of evidence backing their authenticity.

(7.) eBay UK (possibly through the actions of an eBay UK employee bribed by Cougie) initially determining my items were counterfeit, even though Cougie had zero photographic evidence."

ALSO:  Submitting to temptation from pestering eBay emails to leave feedback for Cougie, I left three false positives in an effort to alert eBayers. Though these comments were removed and the positives remained, I did not actually get into trouble from eBay about it. I DID get one hell of a crazy, threatening and harassing direct email from Cougie , however. I will most definitely post that one!


Thanks for the ongoing discussions, even if we don't all see eye to eye regarding the customs-alteration issue. I really hope posting the US law, and the penalties for violations, justify where I was coming from?


---Pauly

Who's bringing the popcorn?
   

nn wrote in "cougarrinard" scams himself into eBay trouble.:1) cougarinard a bellend, hoorah

2) you are being a dick about the customs description though

US customs do not give a fuck about whether an envelope leaving the country contains a "book" or a "game".
If you want to sell internationally then put a bit of effort in.

Well, since you're being so rude about it, why don't you have a little look for yourself:

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/f ... es2015.pdf
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... EQVXz3ARi4

Specifically: (Page 13)




I am trying to abide the law. I suggest if you are a US citizen and this directly affects you, go pester your local and state representatives about it. If you are not from the USA,  hope that the US laws can be changed. Otherwise, if you insist on being overly rude, go crawl back under the rock you came from.  



Next posting coming tomorrow night.