Invincible Overlord wrote:You're right though, short of tossing them out and having a new company come in though, it's not going to change (and it's highly unlikely that that's going to happen).

That's what racketeering is all about. You have no option but to had control over to a nice bunch of guys who charge for this and charge for that and control the price and move the mojority of the product in and out of their own company and rediculously high margins.

I have absolutely no doubt that Troll & Toad have never done a single thing immoral or dishonest in their lives and that this in no way is any form of racket or disreputable enterprise, and that as people they are completely honest and trustworthy and do this wholely out of generousity and a desire to help the industry.

I am just pointing out the similarities in business practice and business model between organisational setups and inductry manipulation.

I wonder if GenCon have that much say in what happens in their name and whether or not they really care anymore.

mbassoc2003 wrote:Indeed. It would be reasonable from their business point of view, to say, "Look we need to charge you shipping."

definitely. I have had that in my emails to them that I would pay for return shipping since the beginning.

mbassoc2003 wrote:A good outcome story would a nice thing to post on this thread.

I will for sure give an update on which way this goes. hoping for a positive out come.

 Really, so IO isn't Mike? Now I'm confuddled.

ExTSR wrote:As I've said repeatedly, the GenCon and Origins auctions are run by The Partnership LLC, who is Bruce Carson & Jon Huston.

Simple truth.
Not gonna beat this dead horse further.

*nods*

hiya frank hope youre well and things are good your side.

hope to catch up with you soon

Al

The "new guy" is doing fine and is (more importantly) gainfully employed.

The carpenters (another trade at McCormick Place) went on strike last month. It lasted two days (a Saturday and Sunday), and they were able to gain a few concessions from the general contractor.

No other trade (including ours) crossed the picket line those days. And as scary as it was, union muscle was flexed, and we won.

And in these days, that's huge.

Interesting post at http://www.miniaturetrading.com/im/foru ... start=15//

"DON'T buy from Troll and Toad! They lie and they will steal your money. I ordered from them and had my entire order mysteriously vanish. I called Troll and Toad and politely asked them if maybe they forgot to send it. This woman who works there but wouldn't give her name told me it "wasn't their problem anymore" because they had a delivery confirmation number. I wrote down the number and checked it at the post office.

The manager at the post office tells me it's a made up number, and that there's no package that matches that number.

So I open a dispute with pay-pal and wait a month to get the result which is that my claim is refused because Troll and Toad provided them with a Delivery Confirmation number.

Two weeks later I get a call from a different woman who works at Troll and Toad. She's obviously unaware of the pay-pal dispute and tells me there has been an error and she just found a package for me which had been shipped incorrectly and returned due to an error by Troll and Toad. I ask her how I have a delivery confirmation item for an item that was obviously never delivered. No response. I tell her I don't want the cards anymore I want my money refunded because it's been over two months and I have already purchased the item elsewhere.

Troll and Toad refuses to refund my money. I call and press the issue with Pay-Pal, I tell them to run the fake delivery confirmation number at the post office. they confirm it's a lie and refund my money.

DON'T buy anything from these crooks."

The 'staff member refused to give me her name' is very common. When you have a problem, especially if you're calling International, the staff treat you like sh!t on the phone, and they won't allow you to speak to a manager or give you their name. I've had that problem myself.

So, Troll & Toad lied to PayPal and to you in order to avoid refunding you and they then tripped themselves up when an honest member didn't check what the fabricated story was that the company had made up and fed to PayPal?

That's pretty out of order. I wonder if someone from T&T can explain that to us? Is this common practice to fabricate evidence to avoid refunding after T&T make a mistake, or is this unusual?

mbassoc2003 wrote:A good outcome story would a nice thing to post on this thread.

nope. it has been a week since hearing from Crimsonspire and the same old from T&T, silence silence and more silence. just stay away from this company.

Well, so long as this thread keeps getting updated, the Google Bots keep indexing it, and if it looks lively it becomes more prominant in the search engine.

If you have a bad story about your experience with Troll & Toad, your fastest means of getting noticed is to post a warning thread and keep them active and updated on every RPG forum you can join. If every online forum has a T&T complaints thread, they will begin to address the issue, because it's the only way to fight the barage of negative publicity.

Just make sure you only tell the truth an are tenatious and diligent about keeping the threads fed and active. T&T will deal with you possitively if you use the online forums to stand up and take notice.