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Post Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:46 am 
 

This waiting for have we been!  PDT_Armataz_01_25



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Post Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:55 pm 
 

Good stuff so far, Zenopus!  Well done and thank you.  8)

I'd personally love to see a gallery of Chris Holmes' artwork if that's possible.  Quite a bit of talent there.

Also I'm assuming that the reason his artwork wasn't used is not because it's not good (it is), but because DCS and Trampier were the staff artists and there might have been some ire if an outsider's art was commissioned while staff artists were right there.

I also like the essay about Christopher Holmes as the Red Axe of Pellucidar:
http://www.erblist.com/erbmania/edgarde ... olmes.html

  


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:01 am 
 

Thanks, darkseraphim. I'm hoping to share Chris' artwork, but the manuscript I'm going through right now doesn't include it. Hopefully Billy will scan them when he has time. I have plans to add a gallery of Chris' art to my website, starting with his work published in Alarums & Excursions and Dragon. Right now I just have the works listed at The Artists of Holmes Basic - Zenopus Archives

Good point about the staff artists, though TSR should've used his work at least in The Dragon.

Part 3 is up now: "Elves Must Decide", covering the character classes. The section on Elves has the most significant change so far.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:48 am 
 

Part 4: "...And a Half-Human/Half-Serpent Naga", covering more sections on character creation. Some surprises here in the section on "Additional Character Classes"!


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:36 am 
 

My comment on part 4:  

grodog wrote:Very nice details, Zach!  Looks like I'll have to pull out my Manual of Aurania for a re-read sometime soon :D

Some random speculation, but perhaps whoever wrote the anonymous "Witchcraft Supplement for Dungeons & Dragons"        article in TD#5 (published in March 1977---fortuitous timing...) was someone at TSR, who then subtly added it into the Holmes basic set as a way to try to further the addition of the Witch into AD&D?  Might be worth investigating further, perhaps?


What more do we know about the Witchcraft supplement in TD#5??  Beyond the info in the intro, I don't know anything more:  

Tim Kask in TD#5 wrote:We received this ms. over 15 months ago, and have been unable to establish the identity of the author. If
he or she is reading this, please step forward and receive your just reward. ED


The article was published in March 1977, so TSR received it no later than December 1975 and probably a little earlier.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:39 pm 
 

Cool stuff, good to see.

I think the back-flips in trying to resolve elf multi-classing are interesting because they allude to where Gygax was coming from when he was trying out different things to differentiate D&D elves from Tolkien's elves.

Holmes' take is interesting too.  The superstition that iron prevents elves (fairies) from using magic dates back to folklore, and if I remember it was also used in Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions.  There's an allusion to iron's disenchanting power in de Camp's and Pratt's The Castle of Iron as well.  If I remember correctly, one of the alternate realms in Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits is a direct tribute to Three Hearts and the elven allergy to iron; I don't have a copy in front of me right now. :)

Of course, there's a few wrinkles.  Under this definition, elves should be able to wear padded or leather armor, even if they are acting as magic-users in a rule set that forbids metal armor.  Also, magic-users shouldn't be able to use iron daggers or darts (or iron spikes!) either, if the matter is taken to a logical conclusion.  I also think it's interesting that arcane magic in D&D is hinted at as elven (as opposed to divine) magic, meaning that magic-users are actually sages of elven lore in a way, channeling faerie.  I do wonder if this is the root of the "magic-users can't wear metal armor, but clerics can" enigma as well.

Needless to say, though, the ambiguities get too complex to use in a game!  It's easier to just say elves are wizard-warriors and they wear armor because they just do in Tolkien (and Dunsany?), and leave it at that.

And don't get me started on elfin chain mail!
:lol:

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:01 am 
 

grodog wrote in J. Eric Holmes collection:What more do we know about the Witchcraft supplement in TD#5??

The witch article in TD#5 is more of a monster entry than a character class - nothing about levels. There are several types of witches varying in power and alignment but they have a flat "spells per day" allowance very unlike normal class casters. The article in TD#20 (?) is much more like a playable class.



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Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:02 pm 
 

Here are the most recent posts comparing the Holmes Manuscript and the published Basic Rulebook:

Part 6, "Fully Armored and Heavily Loaded", covering Languages and the first part of 'dungeoneering': time, movement, encumbrance and light sources.

Part 7: "Something Has Come Strolling Along", covering the rest of dungeoneering and wandering monsters.

Part 8: "Successively Deeper Strata", covering Experience and Levels.

Part 9: "Zombies Are Poisoned By Salt", covering casting and learning spells, making scrolls and saving throws.

Part 10: "Book of First Level Spells", naturally covering the first level spells. Magic Missile requires a 'to-hit' roll in the manuscript. The spell lists match Greyhawk, missing the "new" spells.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:53 pm 
 

I took a break for the holidays but have resumed this series. Here are the posts since my last update above:

Part 11: "Book of Second Level Spells"

Interlude: "Who Edited the Editor?"

Part 12: "Clerical Spells". Of note, the section on Evil Cleric spells is missing from the manuscript.

Part 13: "Melee is the Most Exciting Part of the Game", covering the introduction to combat and the attack tables.

Part 14: "A Curare Tipped Blowgun Dart", covering Poison, Oil and Holy Water. Of note, most of the rules for Oil are missing from the manuscript.

Part 15: "Hits With Arrows", covering Missile Fire and Magic Weapons.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:48 pm 
 

Part 16: "An Exchange of Two Blows with Ordinary Weapons", covering attacks per round in combat, including the infamous daggers...  8-)


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:40 pm 
 

I haven't updated this thread in a while even though I've been continuing the series slowly over the last year. I've just gotten to the Sample Dungeon.

Here are the two most recent posts:

Part 46: "Zenopous Built a Tower", covering the introduction to the Sample Dungeon.

Part 47: "The Occupants are Goblins", covering Rooms A-E of the Sample Dungeon.

The first post in the series also has an index of links to all of the individual posts: The Holmes Manuscript


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:46 pm 
 

Time for another update methinks, Zenopus!  :wink:



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Post Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 12:09 am 
 

Here are the two most recent posts:

Part 48: "The Shadow on the Gnomon", covering Rooms H-I of the Sample Dungeon.

Part 49: "Will Drop on Unwary Adventurers", covering Rooms J-M of the Sample Dungeon.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:01 pm 
 

I've just finished my blog series on the Holmes Manuscript. 54 parts total. The index is here, with links to each post:

Holmes Manuscript series

I've also just posted Appendix A: Manuscript Copy Order Form, which shows a picture (courtesy Billy Galaxy) of the order Holmes placed for 10 photocopies of the final version. Importantly, it's dated 2/4/77, which means he had finished the manuscript before that date.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:35 am 
 

crikey! you've been busy PDT_Armataz_01_34

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:15 am 
 

Zenopus wrote in J. Eric Holmes collection:I've just finished my blog series on the Holmes Manuscript. 54 parts total. The index is here, with links to each post:

Holmes Manuscript series

I've also just posted Appendix A: Manuscript Copy Order Form, which shows a picture (courtesy Billy Galaxy) of the order Holmes placed for 10 photocopies of the final version. Importantly, it's dated 2/4/77, which means he had finished the manuscript before that date.


Amazing! Looking forward to your talk at NTRPG con in a couple weeks!

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Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:02 am 
 

Another new post in the series:

Appendix B: Chris Holmes Manuscript Artwork, with a look at six monster illustrations that Chris drew for the 2nd draft of the Holmes Manuscript.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:58 pm 
 

Thanks, Zach---that reminds me that I need to work on the slides for the reading for NTX!


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