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Your opinion doesnt matter anymore
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blackdougal
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:40 pm

chromaticknight wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:Looks like AFA will grade shrink items:

My personal AFA experience is limited to action figures (so I may or may not know what I'm talking about here) but I believe they'll only grade factory sealed board games. They're in the business of grading boxes and carded figures so I imagine they would not do open boxes or modules, even in shrink.

Badmike
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:46 am

blackdougal wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:
I used to deal with CGC extensively with comics. Unless something has changed recently they don't grade shrinkwrap/polybagged items. You can submit them in shrink but they will open them for grading and encapsulation. Again, I was just dealing with comics, but I doubt very much they'd have a different policy just for RPG items.

Wow, I hope they point that out before they tear a mono S1 out of the shrink to "evaluate" it. That action alone knocks 10x off the value (removing the shrink). Hmmm

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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:14 pm

Badmike wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:
Wow, I hope they point that out before they tear a mono S1 out of the shrink to "evaluate" it. That action alone knocks 10x off the value (removing the shrink). Hmmm

Mike B.

Lol. If they did that I’d say the responsibility would lie entirely with the owner of the product asking them for grading. I doubt they leave themselves open to litigation, and I wouldn’t imagine a lot of people read the contract when employing their services.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

blackdougal
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:43 pm

Badmike wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:Wow, I hope they point that out before they tear a mono S1 out of the shrink to "evaluate" it. That action alone knocks 10x off the value (removing the shrink). Hmmm

Mike B.

I believe you had to sign off giving them permission to open the product. Otherwise they would just return it ungraded.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:51 am

blackdougal wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:
I believe you had to sign off giving them permission to open the product. Otherwise they would just return it ungraded.

Seems they are also of the opinion that shrinkwrap is not a condition.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Mister Yuk
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:02 am

Badmike wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:
Wow, I hope they point that out before they tear a mono S1 out of the shrink to "evaluate" it. That action alone knocks 10x off the value (removing the shrink). Hmmm

Mike B.

The 10X value is reality today for a mono S1. But what if a top of the CGC census mono S1 ends up going for a lot more in the future?

Will the toy company grader be seen giving more or less value to an item over the company more known for Comics?

At least the S1 can be identified in shrink for what printing it is, some modules can't.

I think that's important to note though. Only some modules have that kind of an increase, many are lucky to hit double. Those some are the rarest to find by far, they didn't get discounted by a major retailer. We know that. But it's not general public knowledge, something easy to grasp like 0-10 on condition. Something any Insurance Adjuster could get the data for and look up.

Tszii
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:45 pm

Magazine grading is up to 191 days now.

Orlandojones
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:23 am

blackdougal wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:Also, if there are loose components (say, for example, the magic viewer from MV1) they do not include those in the encapsulation. Take a look a the comic image I snagged off eBay. No idea what they'd do with a fold-out map, but I'm inclined to say they wouldn't slab those either since they aren't part of the book.

Another thing to keep in mind is that restoration (which includes amateur color touch up, tape, etc.) and missing parts/loose pages will get you something other than a blue label. Purple (restoration) and green (qualified) labels are, for the most part, considered A Very Bad Thing and dramatically affect value.

[ Image ]

So if I send them a mint copy of a module that i know is missing inserts (current market view is its not worth that much), and they box it and grade it a 9.8 that's going to be worth more than a good condition but complete module. That seems to kind of undermine the whole process doesn't it?

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:26 am

If they grade something 9.8 that is missing inserts, they are either ignorant and should not be grating items, which is my general opinion about third party profiteers and those who use them to seal their products beyond inspection, or they are doing so deliberately and with knowledge of the fraud they are perpetrating in exchange for a fee.

I would hope they would not do either. A business of integrity should charge the client a fee regardless of whether or not the item were graded, and the onus should be upon the client to ensure his product was complete and of suitable quality to be graded.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Orlandojones
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:05 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:If they grade something 9.8 that is missing inserts, they are either ignorant and should not be grating items, which is my general opinion about third party profiteers and those who use them to seal their products beyond inspection, or they are doing so deliberately and with knowledge of the fraud they are perpetrating in exchange for a fee.

I would hope they would not do either. A business of integrity should charge the client a fee regardless of whether or not the item were graded, and the onus should be upon the client to ensure his product was complete and of suitable quality to be graded.

I guess the way to be sure of the grading would be to understand if the inserts/additions/maps etc are included in the grading process and Slab/enclosure and therefore can be relied upon as being complete and if missing the grading would be really low regardless of how shiny the exterior was. If inserts/additions/maps are not included in the Slab/enclosure then given the inability to inspect the contents its a Schrödinger's cat situation! Be interesting to see what happens though as this had a big impact in the comic space.

blackdougal
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:18 pm

Orlandojones wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:So if I send them a mint copy of a module that i know is missing inserts (current market view is its not worth that much), and they box it and grade it a 9.8 that's going to be worth more than a good condition but complete module. That seems to kind of undermine the whole process doesn't it?

Honestly, I don't think they'd grade it, but I could be wrong. Having maps and other inserts outside of the slab, especially when that's something so common with modules, does seem rather pointless, but CGC simply does not consider unattached inserts to be part of the book.

As for value, that's up to the buyers, many of whom these days seem tragically uneducated on gaming in general and grading economics in particular. Slabbing a common 5.0 (heck, even a common 9.0) is a colossal waste of time and money as it does nothing to increase the value. In most cases, the slabbing costs more than the potential sale value of the item. It's been that way in comics for a long time but I think the newness of graded modules will doubtless cause senseless overpsending for a brief window of time.

Tszii
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:12 pm

Items do need be complete and unaltered. CGC grades magazines, I cant imagine they would grade modules differently.

Unaltered for cards means without marker on the corners with black borders etc. General use, wear etc are fine, just nothing that makes an item appear better than it is. I have no idea how this applies to magazines or modules. :)

Counters and fold out maps - I have no idea. Its new. I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt grade items that included counters. I am sure there are comics that had inserts and those have to be complete, and again, they are the premier graded of comics.

I understand being a bit suspect of the whole thing, but CGC didnt pop up last week. I trust they will make a lot of good decisions and make a few mistakes.

I sent some of my nicest condition modules. I suspect I will get a couple of 9.5s, no 10s, and maybe a few 8.5s. No stale rust, few spine creases on some. I did sent a Q1 with good bit of wear, so I am really wondering how that will turn out in comparison. We will find out in the spring!

blackdougal
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:44 am

Tszii wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:Items do need be complete and unaltered.

You might think so, but that's actually not the case. CGC will grade incomplete comics (missing panels or inserts) but they will receive a green label "Qualified" grade. This drastically reduces the value of the book... more common pieces would be essentially valueless. CGC also grades lots of altered comics but they will receive a purple label "Restored" grade. Restoration can be either professional or amateur, slight to extensive and includes such common alterations as color touch and tear seals. This likewise has a significant impact on the value of the book... it's often referred to as the PLOD (purple label of death) if that gives you some idea.

Tszii wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:Counters and fold out maps - I have no idea. Its new. I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt grade items that included counters. I am sure there are comics that had inserts and those have to be complete, and again, they are the premier graded of comics.

CGC does not consider any unattached insert to be part of the comic and does not include them in the grading process or the encapsulation. I'm not sure what they'd do with this either, but my guess is that they simply wouldn't grade it. Since that's a huge part of RPGs they'd have to develop new protocols specific to RPG grading.

Tszii wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:I understand being a bit suspect of the whole thing, but CGC didnt pop up last week. I trust they will make a lot of good decisions and make a few mistakes.

I've submitted hundreds of books to CGC and have relatively few complaints. They're pretty good at what they do, as far as comics go.

Tszii wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:I sent some of my nicest condition modules. I suspect I will get a couple of 9.5s, no 10s, and maybe a few 8.5s. No stale rust, few spine creases on some. I did sent a Q1 with good bit of wear, so I am really wondering how that will turn out in comparison. We will find out in the spring!

I look forward to seeing how it goes! 9.2 is kind of a standard for "new" copies so anything above that will have to be exceptionally clean. Depending on the severity (color breaking vs. non-color breaking), size and quantity of spine ticks it's tough to get higher than a 9.4 at best. It is possible to get a 9.6 or even 9.8 with maybe a single 1/8" or smaller non-color breaking spine tick. Only around .1% of all submissions have gotten a 10, so that's one of those things you can never count on, even if it looks perfect.

Tszii
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:44 am

Ah! Green Label! You dont see those for cards. That makes sense.

Sir Kill Alot
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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:51 pm

** expired/removed eBay auction **

-SKA

stratochamp
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:01 am

Why in the world would anyone buy that copy?

Shrink is not a condition

Tszii
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:24 am

No good reason to buy it. I can see it selling for $500 if it was a 10.0 or 9.5 though.

aia
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:04 am

stratochamp wrote in Your opinion doesnt matter anymore:Why in the world would anyone buy that copy?

Because it is trendy! ...will i have always to be here to explain the rules of human basic stupidity?

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