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Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:50 am 
 

As I wrote in my introductory post, I found this community only now, and that's a shame because otherwise I would have not dealt with such individual... However, by reading things about him, I was actually surprised I was scammed so hard, as far as I understand he's a shady guy but not used to sell fake reprints... Anyway, here's the story.

TL;DR: he sold me an inkjet reprint of Uncaged: Faces of Sigil, and I could not check it before the 30 day buyers' protection time had passed because I was travelling.

I'm not a hardcore collector myself, but I have a thing for 2nd ed. Planescape. I started collecting quite long ago, and I am now very close to completing the collection (except the Sketchbook of course). So, in November I decided to buy myself a Christmas present :P and I found this copy of Uncaged: Faces of Sigil in VGC (pictures did not look disappointing).

The seller was cougar_rinard (from whom I had bought something long time ago with only minor issues). He has a HUGE amount of feedbacks, 100% positive, so I thought I could trust him blindly. I bought the item and had it shipped to my parents' house (because I was travelling and would only be back for Christmas). When the package arrived, I asked my parents to check and show it to me on video call. It was looking good, so I left a positive feedback.

Then, when I was back a few days ago, the bitter revelation: the book is actually a FAKE INKJET REPLICA (probably from a scanned PDF). See pictures. There was no easy way of telling the difference through the webcam without checking the side border, which unfortunately I didn't.

I contacted the guy asking for a return but of course, 30 days having passed, he just refused.

So I am warning you here, although I'm pretty sure it's quite pointless. My only question is: HOW THE HECK IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THIS PIG HAS 100% POSITIVE FEEDBACKS? Admittely, I've been an idiot, but only because I was travelling, usually I'm much more careful and never had a problem.

Does anyone know his address?  :mrgreen:

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:47 am 
 

I had a similar problem before with a seller of a piece of Antique Glass. I think as far as eBay is concerned once you leave feedback, you're happy with it. No take backs.

I haven't purchased anything from this seller. Sorry that you were taken advantage of, thanks for letting everyone know.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:19 pm 
 

Did eBay kill the "6 month return" policy already?


You might be able to dispute the charge via PayPal and/or your credit card (many cards give 60 days).  Not sure how the credit card/PayPal/eBay connection works these days.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 pm 
 

And here's what happens when you search the UPC code.

UPC Database: Dummy UPC

Coug has been a known quantity here for quite some time. I'd advise a trip down memory lane in the Shady Dealers thread.


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:35 pm 
 

zaratambo wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:Does anyone know his address?  :mrgreen:


His address used to be: 78 Thurbern road, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO2 0PJ

I don't know if that's still his address.  I got that information from here:
Cougarrinard is now using Ebay ID of littleprincessfreya

I wish you the best.  He's the worst kind of eBay seller.   :x


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:31 am 
 

£80 for this, you must have  wanted it pretty bad.
Can't see the item in question but it could be that it is an official wotc reprint available on drivethrurpg for as little as $16.99. If this is the case (and one seller is doing quite nicely selling these for £19.99 a go) then where does one stand? After all this is a new and effectively genuine product purchased legally and sold on to potentially unsuspecting buyers. Reading the product description there is plenty of wriggle room when it comes to interpreting just what you are getting.
(If they are a home print out/scan then the above is moot of course).

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:47 am 
 

Carl is probably right: the reprint might be legal... and in this case you cannot follow the "illegal print" topic against him...
Sadly he built a solid and legal case!


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:13 am 
 

As I mentioned above, searching the Bar Code turns up a dummy number. There would be no reason for TSR to do a reprint using a dummy code when they already had a legit one. The back cover is also seriously overshifted to the right. If they used the standard 1/8" bleed, there should be no more than 1/8" between the left edge of the logo, and the edge of the cover. For that matter, any smart designer would have had the logo bleed off as well, as this one does not appear to have done. As all the reference I have is photos found via the Webz, I cannot speak to the spine except to say that if it were legit, the shifting of the back cover should also have shifted the rest, so the spine should now be on the front cover. It smacks of digital manipulation at the least.



EDIT: HOLD the PHONE! (left the rest of the post above so it may help spot fakes in the future)

Gyg has it. It IS legit, as he guessed: I found a review of a printed piece that came from DriveThruRPG which originated from the official PDFs. What we have here is not an original book from TSR, but rather a reprint from DriveThruRPG. See the review below.

Power Score: Dungeons & Dragons - New Printings of Old D&D Books from DrivethruRPG


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:57 pm 
 

Sorry you are going through this. I would at least attempt to file in PayPal against this print out. Maybe choose the category unauthorized copies of media or whatever the exact term PayPal and eBay use.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:35 am 
 

Thanks everybody for the answers! Yes, that's exactly the very same reprint from Drivethrurpg you spotted... I have no hope of getting my funds back through Ebay, as you said this is a pretty solid case, although I'm sure it would have been different had I checked the item before leaving the feedback.

In any case I reported cougar_rinard to Ebay, they contacted me to say that they'll look into the case - but I don't have much hope there as well. This was just to warn everybody of this guy - and hopefully have this post cached on Google or similar, the same way I found this community after all.

I don't know what these guys at drivethrurpg are doing, it sounds quite unlikely to me that this is a legit operation, they are making money out of TSR copyrighted material after all, and it seems unlikely that they got permission for that. In any case, the witty scam cougar_rinard made on Ebay is DEFINITELY not legit: one would have at least to specify clearly that this was a reprint.

Thanks for the address ;)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:19 pm 
 

You should try doing a chargeback, especially if your Paypal payment is through a credit card. I think you have up to six months on one of those. When asked why you would like your money back after you left positive feedback for the seller - just say that it took you some time to figure out it was a clever forgery.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:26 pm 
 

zaratambo wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:I don't know what these guys at drivethrurpg are doing, it sounds quite unlikely to me that this is a legit operation, they are making money out of TSR copyrighted material after all, and it seems unlikely that they got permission for that.

The folks at Drivethrurpg are entirely legit. They launched the Dndclassics.com website in January 2013 in partnership with Wizards of the Coast, selling PDFs of out-of-print D&D titles. The site was rebranded to DMsguild.com in 2016, and later that year, they began adding print-on-demand options for some titles. If you don't mind filling gaps in your collection with reprints rather than originals, then I'd recommend visiting the site before paying Ebay prices for second-hand originals.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:50 pm 
 

And am I correct that DTRPG receive the PDFs directly from WotC?


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:19 am 
 

SimperingToad wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:And am I correct that DTRPG receive the PDFs directly from WotC?

Most, but not all of them. My understanding is that WotC provided the files they had, which included almost all of the 3e and 4e products, as well as a number of earlier items. However, the DTRPG team has been acquiring and (slowly) scanning the items that WotC did not have files for.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:24 am 
 

Mister Yuk wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:You should try doing a chargeback.


Yes, I requested a chargeback on Paypal, let's see what happens...  :roll:

Echohawk wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:The folks at Drivethrurpg are entirely legit. They launched the Dndclassics.com website in January 2013 in partnership with Wizards of the Coast, selling PDFs of out-of-print D&D titles. The site was rebranded to DMsguild.com in 2016, and later that year, they began adding print-on-demand options for some titles. If you don't mind filling gaps in your collection with reprints rather than originals, then I'd recommend visiting the site before paying Ebay prices for second-hand originals.


OK, I see, best of luck to them then, it's nice that WotC agreed to such partnership, although it's not entirely clear why they have to use a dummy UPC code, but oh well...

Personally I don't see these reprints as an option in terms of collector's joy :D but they are definitely a good idea in case you want to use the material in game, or even just read it without having to tear your beloved shrinkwrap. I might even buy a couple of them since they're so cheap, let's see.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:55 am 
 

zaratambo wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:Personally I don't see these reprints as an option in terms of collector's joy :D but they are definitely a good idea in case you want to use the material in game, or even just read it without having to tear your beloved shrinkwrap. I might even buy a couple of them since they're so cheap, let's see.

I agree. The only D&D POD titles I've bought from them are the items that have not otherwise appeared in print, which are limited to a small number of 5th Edition titles. However, if I was actively playing, say, a Planescape campaign, I'd probably pick up the reprint versions of the boxed sets, as these have the maps and other box contents added as pages in a single book. In many cases, that makes them more practical for transport and in-game use than the original boxed sets.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:24 pm 
 

zaratambo wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:
Mister Yuk wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:You should try doing a chargeback.


Personally I don't see these reprints as an option in terms of collector's joy :D but they are definitely a good idea in case you want to use the material in game, or even just read it without having to tear your beloved shrinkwrap. I might even buy a couple of them since they're so cheap, let's see.


I found that if you want a play only copy it is almost always less expensive to by an old "non-collectible" version (such as a well used copy) rather that the reprint.  The new Judges Guild and Met Alpha stuff that Goodman has pumped out lately are a perfect examples of this.


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:17 pm 
 

zaratambo wrote in Cougar Rinard Scam on Ebay - Fake Inkjet Reprint:although it's not entirely clear why they have to use a dummy UPC code, but oh well...

When I was in the desktop publishing biz, we used dummy codes as placeholders on a product design until the real one could be provided, though we were usually smart enough to put a big 'FPO' (for position only) over the code to prevent the error of sending something to the press before the proper code was inserted. This might be a case of such an error going through, but then I don't know if other POD books DTRPG creates have this issue. If the code is not actually needed for POD, then perhaps they just needed something to fill the white space.

It would certainly not surprise me that the code would be different from the TSR version. As TSR no longer exists, using their codes would cause issues.


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