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1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?
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Post Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:30 pm 
 

I recently came across evidence of a 1983 edition of the OD&D Supplements that contained revised text and illustrations. This included only the first three supplements.

It seems these were produced, but that is really all I know about them. They might have been part of a 10th Anniversary reissue.

Does anyone have any information about these?

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:24 pm 
 

May I ask where you heard this? It would be surprising news to me after following the Acaeum for about 20 ( 8O ) years now.

There was a late (last until the reprints?) version of at least some supplements that was essentially a photocopy. When I ordered a copy of Blackmoor from the Hobby Shop in the late '80s, this was the version I received. The cover is white paper like the rest of the booklet. These are mentioned on the page for the Supplements:

black-and-white reprints of the Nov 79 editions were also later released, probably as stocks of that print ran out.  They are basically photocopies; some sources have reported paper-thin covers, while others describe covers identical in weight to the normal tan-colored versions.


There were no changes to the layout or artwork of these, though.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:11 pm 
 

Zenopus wrote in 1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?:May I ask where you heard this? It would be surprising news to me after following the Acaeum for about 20 ( 8O ) years now.



September 9, 1983 four publications were registered at the U.S. Copyright Office—which means they were applied for at the same time. The four were:
    Dungeons & Dragons fantasy adventure game basic set.
    Dungeons & Dragons : suppl. I, Greyhawk.
    Dungeons & Dragons : suppl. III, Eldritch wizardry.
    Dungeons & Dragons : suppl. II, Blackmoor.

The first one is Mentzer Basic, the other three are clearly the Supplement to OD&D. Now the Supplements were all registered years earlier and this is not a renewal, all three applications also say, "new text and ill." and unlike the original registrations say "TSR Games, employer for hire." (staff artists)  to cover the illustrations.

My first thought was that these never saw production, so I called the Copyright Office. I was told these were cataloged from application due to more volume that the office would handle, that means the person who reviewed the application and created the registration did so without the actual printed sample (the deposited copy) on hand. But, I was assured a copy was sent and deposited as the applications would never have been registered without the deposited material. I asked if the deposited material still exists, but was informed they are past the retention period and were destroyed. Same for apparent correspondence between the Copyright Office and TSR that had existed. So according to US Copyright registrations TX 1-314-908, TX 1-314-909 and TX 1-314-910 and the person I spoke to, these did exist.

Since they were registered with Mentzer Basic, I PM'd Mr. Mentzer here. He said there was a flurry of activity to create 10th-anniversary memorabilia for 1984 and that this included the 10A slipcase set, various other items, and a reprint of the 3 LBB. But that he did not work on it. I also emailed Larry Elmore via his site, figuring he was the most likely from that period to do line art for such a project, but have not heard back.

Still unsure what these actually were, I posted here to see if anyone knew.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:34 pm 
 

I'm having some difficulty finding on the US Copyright page what you're referring to(this listing is in reverse alphabetical order).

WebVoyage Titles

Image

I found a whole pile of familiar titles and items including the Mentzer Basic Set here:

WebVoyage Record View 1

Image

And the expert set, too:

WebVoyage Record View 1

Image

But nothing in the copyright year of 1983 that matches any of the first 3 supplements.  On top of that, someone at this point would have come up with at least one of these newly copyrighted books if they actually existed and were put into even a limited printing.

(*Edited to add some pictures, as my searches appear to have some sort of time out issue that's not allowing the links to remain active.*)


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Last edited by bclarkie on Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:44 pm 
 

After looking further, I did find them, but they appear to be attached to the original filings, so I'm not entirely sure this means this were filings for a new copyright for a new book.  :

WebVoyage Titles

And:

WebVoyage Titles

And:

WebVoyage Titles


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:57 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote in 1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?:After looking further, I did find them, but they appear to be attached to the original filings, so I'm not entirely sure this means this were filings for a new copyright for a new book.


The revision is attached to the original, as the length of copyright does not restart with a revision. WotC could do a revision today and it too would be attached to the original as the last day of copyright protection does not move.

It is a new registration for a revision of already copyrighted material, not a new copyright, and not a renewal.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:17 pm 
 

Malchor77 wrote in 1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?:
The revision is attached to the original, as the length of copyright does not restart with a revision. WotC could do a revision today and it too would be attached to the original as the last day of copyright protection does not move.

It is a new registration for a revision of already copyrighted material, not a new copyright, and not a renewal.


It's not that simple, though.

Any new published material added to the new publication would be protected by the new(or perhaps better described as amended) copyright filing, thus the need to file for it in the first place.

WotC released all the little booklets again a few years ago. With new cover artwork, but basically just a reprint of the originals. They have no new filings for it though, which makes sense, as they are effectively just another printing of the same material(with nothing "new" included from 1983 either).  

It appears to be vaporware.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:38 pm 
 

As you guys alluded to above, TSR may have had a lot of pokers in the fire for the 10th anniversary.  A lot of things that they had in motion, ready to go, but decided not to send to print.  It's quite possible some physical copy was drawn up, but by 1983, the writing should have been on the wall that Original D&D was not where things were headed.  So they never green-lit the reprint.

I think we can say with some certainty that no reprint was ever released in the wild.

Foul

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:57 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote in 1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?:Any new published material added to the new publication would be protected by the new(or perhaps better described as amended) copyright filing, thus the need to file for it in the first place. .


That is incorrect. The original sets the date, as the revision is a derivative of it, not a new work.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:00 pm 
 

FoulFoot wrote:I think we can say with some certainty that no reprint was ever released in the wild.


Likely, but it had to have been printed, perhaps not sold, as the copyright office does not accept mock-ups.

Would still love to know who did the new art and what it was.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:03 pm 
 

Malchor77 wrote in 1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?:
That is incorrect. The original sets the date, as the revision is a derivative of it, not a new work.


Which is why I added the aside of "amended". My point remains the same and is entirely correct.  Any new material added to the original is protected from the amendment date, not the original work date.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:41 am 
 

bclarkie wrote in 1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?:Which is why I added the aside of "amended". My point remains the same and is entirely correct.  Any new material added to the original is protected from the amendment date, not the original work date.


Friend, that is correct. I did indeed miss your meaning.

For anyone else if they care, see Circular 14, Copyright in Derivative Works and Compilations: https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

Specifically, Copyright Protection in Derivative Works:
The copyright in a derivative work covers only the additions, changes, or other new material appearing for the first time in the work. Protection does not extend to any preexisting material, that is, previously published or previously registered works or works in the public domain or owned by a third party.

As a result, it is not possible to extend the length of protection for a copyrighted work by creating a derivative work. A work that has fallen into the public domain, that is, a work that is no longer protected by copyright, is also an underlying "work" from which derivative authorship may be added, but the copyright in the derivative work will not extend to the public domain material, and the use of the public domain material in a derivative work will not prevent anyone else from using the same public domain work for another derivative work.


So back to the mysterious 1983 new text and illustrations for the first three supplements. Assuming they never hit store or convention shelves, who would have worked on the revised text and art? Elmore is my first guess for art, anyone else?

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:41 pm 
 

Zenopus wrote in 1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?:May I ask where you heard this? It would be surprising news to me after following the Acaeum for about 20 ( 8O ) years now.

There was a late (last until the reprints?) version of at least some supplements that was essentially a photocopy. When I ordered a copy of Blackmoor from the Hobby Shop in the late '80s, this was the version I received. The cover is white paper like the rest of the booklet. These are mentioned on the page for the Supplements:



There were no changes to the layout or artwork of these, though.


This looks like a Greyhawk photocopy/edition, perhaps?:  


** expired/removed eBay auction **


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:18 pm 
 

grodog wrote in 1983 OD&D Supplements w/ revissions?:

This looks like a Greyhawk photocopy/edition, perhaps?:  


** expired/removed eBay auction **


Allan.


Huh, you're probably right. I've never seen one personally before, but there's no way that's not one.


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  
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