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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:59 am 
 

This came up in a conversation over Facebook and I thought I'd check in with the "experts" of Acaeum to see what you all think. I am the original owner of a ninth printing Moldvay Basic box set (the second of four printings of Moldvay Basic, dated 1981) and a third printing Cook Expert box set (the third of three printings, also dated 1981). I removed the original shrink of both boxes so I can guarantee their contents.

Now here's the rub: both of these boxes contain bagged dice that seem to resemble the kind of dice elsewhere described as "Mentzer" dice. In particular, they have the elongated eight-sided dice that were typical of the Mentzer boxed sets. Frank Mentzer himself has recently begun selling bags of these dice on eBay and describing them as 1982 prototypes for the 1983 "red box" Basic Set 1 box.

So what is going on here? If these dice were truly only found in the 1983 Mentzer set, what are they doing in my 1981 printings of B/X?

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:47 pm 
 

Grumm wrote in Question about B/X Dice:This came up in a conversation over Facebook and I thought I'd check in with the "experts" of Acaeum to see what you all think. I am the original owner of a ninth printing Moldvay Basic box set (the second of four printings of Moldvay Basic, dated 1981) and a third printing Cook Expert box set (the third of three printings, also dated 1981). I removed the original shrink of both boxes so I can guarantee their contents.

Now here's the rub: both of these boxes contain bagged dice that seem to resemble the kind of dice elsewhere described as "Mentzer" dice. In particular, they have the elongated eight-sided dice that were typical of the Mentzer boxed sets. Frank Mentzer himself has recently begun selling bags of these dice on eBay and describing them as 1982 prototypes for the 1983 "red box" Basic Set 1 box.

So what is going on here? If these dice were truly only found in the 1983 Mentzer set, what are they doing in my 1981 printings of B/X?


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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:19 pm 
 

Hopefully this works, this is the Moldvay Basic set (Cook Expert are the same, just a different colour):

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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:22 pm 
 

I should add that somebody else on the Facebook conversation said that his Moldvay box was the same (has the so-called "Mentzer" dice), so I'm not the only one apparently! Also, these dice seem to be identical to the 1980/1981 yellow-card "Dragon Dice" blister described right here on the Acaeum.

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:08 am 
 

I will check both my 1st printing boxes...
Going by heart i remember a similar set... Just a question: if this set should not stay in this version of the game (but according to Frank Mentzer) only in the following edition, what would be the expected set of dice here?


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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:56 am 
 

aia wrote in Question about B/X Dice:I will check both my 1st printing boxes...
Going by heart i remember a similar set... Just a question: if this set should not stay in this version of the game (but according to Frank Mentzer) only in the following edition, what would be the expected set of dice here?


The typical dice you find in Moldvay boxes have a smaller d8 with normal proportions (not so elongated). Another difference between the earlier Moldvay dice is that the top of the "3" is rounded (Mentzer 3's are flat on top). Here is a photo of my 1981 third printing Cook Expert dice, notice the flat topped 3...

Image

My current theory is that Moldvay/Cook B/X boxes came with two different generations of dice... the typical small d8's with rounded 3's (probably 1st and 2nd printings) and then later the "Mentzer" style dice for the 1981 third printings.

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:42 am 
 

Grumm wrote in Question about B/X Dice:My current theory is that Moldvay/Cook B/X boxes came with two different generations of dice... the typical small d8's with rounded 3's (probably 1st and 2nd printings) and then later the "Mentzer" style dice for the 1981 third printings.


You are right that the "Mentzer" dice actually predate the Mentzer box sets and first appeared in Moldvay box sets. Also late printings of the Mentzer box sets do not have "Mentzer" dice. So maybe calling them "Mentzer" dice is not great terminology. As far as I know, only "Mentzer" dice and not "Moldvay" dice were sold in blister packs, but the "Moldvay" dice were used in an ad mockup for the blister packs, e.g. GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: Dragon Dice

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:00 pm 
 

grubbiv wrote in Question about B/X Dice:
You are right that the "Mentzer" dice actually predate the Mentzer box sets and first appeared in Moldvay box sets. Also late printings of the Mentzer box sets do not have "Mentzer" dice. So maybe calling them "Mentzer" dice is not great terminology. As far as I know, only "Mentzer" dice and not "Moldvay" dice were sold in blister packs, but the "Moldvay" dice were used in an ad mockup for the blister packs, e.g. GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: Dragon Dice


Great, thank you for confirming my suspicions. Does this mean my B/X set is more on the rare side, or was this fairly common for late Moldvay/Cook boxed sets?

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:14 pm 
 

Grumm wrote in Question about B/X Dice:Does this mean my B/X set is more on the rare side, or was this fairly common for late Moldvay/Cook boxed sets?


I have two 11th printing Moldvay boxes, one with the "Moldvay" dice and one with the "Mentzer" dice. So maybe only some 11th printing boxes have the "Mentzer" dice.

The promotional material in the two boxes are a bit different. The one with the "Moldvay" dice has the Gateway to Adventure catalog, whereas the one with the "Mentzer" dice has a flier for Endless Quest books. Both have RPGA network cards.

  

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Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:47 pm 
 

Just wanted to welcome Grumm to the Aceaum!  I’ve been getting interested in completing my old dice sets and have been finding the history of them very interesting.  I don’t have any intel on the timelines but can only suspect the change in box set versions and dice designs didn’t happen right at the same time. There must have been some overlap.


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Post Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 3:38 am 
 

Just to wrap up, in this auction:


** expired/removed eBay auction **


The set is a 1st "generation", right? The d8 is "thinner" and the top of the 3 is flat... Did i get correctly?

Thanks and ciaooo


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:27 pm 
 

To confirm: I've seen both late Moldvay boxes with the Mentzer dice, and early Mentzer boxes with Moldvay dice.

Frank himself said that the second phase of prototypes was in '82, so I would suspect that Mentzer dice didn't start appearing until at the very earliest in late '82.

Of note, MOST of the Mentzer dice shipped with the crayon IN THE PLASTIC with the dice (which was one of the reasons they were looking for a new manufacturer - they'd been doing this by hand previously), but many of the late Moldvay boxes had Mentzer dice with the crayon outside of the dice plastic (making me think they were production samples that were sealed on the 2 sealing machines at the TSR warehouse).

That's guessing, mind you, but ... best I can figure.

  
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