Issue #2:  Sniping



Since people are being so gentlemanly … and since we're having soooooo much fun …

:lol:



I thought I'd throw out that ol' classic of catastrophic collector contention:  Sniping!



First off:  It's not against eBay policy.  Here's the official stance.

">>Someone bid on an item I was bidding on at the very last second and won it! Is this allowed?"

"Yes, it is.  Within the eBay Community, this practice is called "sniping" and it means to place a high bid in the closing seconds of an auction-style listing.  As frustrating as it can be to lose an item you really wanted, sniping is part of the eBay experience, and all bids placed before a listing ends are valid - even if they're placed only one second before the listing ends.  One way to help avoid disappointment is to ensure that the maximum bid you enter on the item page is the highest price that you're willing to pay. The eBay system automatically increases your bid up to the maximum price you specify, so entering a higher maximum may help prevent you from being outbid in the closing seconds of a listing."



Personally, I'm a Sniping Rat Bastard.  I "tag" items usually within 24 hours of their posting.  Then my bid magically goes in 3-7 seconds prior to auction end.  The only thing I don't like about this is I sometimes end up outbidding people who are also bidding on my own items.  D'oh!



My argument is that nothing can really be "sniped."  You can get a great deal on an item, yes.  But if you bid too low, the item always goes to the highest bidder.  Sniping is not cheating, because the time of bid entry is irrelevant; you simply offered more than the other guy was willing to pay.  The lesson is to always enter your maximum bid, once, and then leave the item alone.



The problem (which I'm sure we've all experienced!) is that if you commit full-on too early, people can roughly guess your maximum amount if they know you well enough.  And you will be outbid very frequently.



The solution, if you don't want to invest in sniping software, is to use the Watch List feature, and bid only in the last few seconds.  It's the same thing as automated sniping, but you have to be there to enter the bid.



So … is sniping ethical?  Immoral?  Too fun for words?  An abomination upon the face of the earth?



Let the games commence.  I'm going to go clean up the pizza sauce from my last round of battle.

:)

Sniping is fine, in the sense that it doesn't raise the final price, or cheat others out of a fair chance to bid on something.  So it's ethical.  It's not terribly moral.



The problem that I have with sniping is that it is very demotivating for newbie eBayers (like me) to have something "ripped away" in the final minutes/seconds.  Often I bid on something, have the high bid for several days, and end up losing because I don't stay up all night watching my auctions close.  

Snipers LOSE as often as they WIN by that strategy since Ebay will always resolve any 'proxy bidding' loops it has even if it's at the last second.

True, so why snipe?  It's clearly done so that the original bidder doesn't have a chance to "respond".  Place your counter-bid days/hours ahead, as well, and save me the trouble of getting my hopes up...



Maybe if eBay only accepted one bid per person per auction...

deimos3428 wrote:Sniping is fine, in the sense that it doesn't raise the final price, or cheat others out of a fair chance to bid on something. So it's ethical. It's not terribly moral.  

Deimos3428 - I hear sentiments like you mentioned many times.  I can not fathom how sniping can be viewed in such a way.  To me, it seems, eBay has set rules that everyone is aware (or should be aware of).  Winning an auction is like winning a game - you play within the rules an do what it takes to get the victory.



To put it in another perspective:  if you were playing Chess with someone and they made a poor move that left them vulnerable you wouldn't question the ethics or morality of taking advantage of their mistake, would you?  And if the person were a beginner?  Well, if you were already kicking their ass, you might let it go so as not to embarrass them, but if they were actually theatening to beat you, you can bet you would take advantage.



Or for a more "tough guy" comparison:  If a football team is down by 1 point with two minutes to go and the ball on their opponents 15 yard line and the opponent has no "time outs" left.  Do you kick a quick field go and let the opposing team have the ball back with 1 min, 45 sec or do you run the clock down to 3 sec. and kick field goal so the game ends with your kick (one way or another).  It's just like sniping - using the rules to the best of your advantage and winning/losing at the buzzer.

deimos3428 wrote:

The problem that I have with sniping is that it is very demotivating for newbie eBayers (like me) to have something "ripped away" in the final minutes/seconds. Often I bid on something, have the high bid for several days, and end up losing because I don't stay up all night watching my auctions close.

Don't worry about "Newbies" - eBay is here to stay.  They will learn to swim with the bigger fish - or they will suffer many defeats.  Don't be disheartened yourself - I am positive that there is nothing that you want on eBay that won't appear hundreds of times within the year.  Be patient - if there is something that you need right away - well, then sometimes you have to pay more (or wait and try to snipe).



Even when I was a Newbie, I was "sniping" and didn't even know what that was.  I got into it to collect comicbooks - despite the decent sized collection I have, there are thousands of comics I want.  What is the point of even looking for one and watching it?  I might only have $50.00 to spend (or less!).  I would just check to see what was ending soon - if I looked good I would bid at the last second - if not, then I would chose something else.  I couldn't risk tying up a Max bid of $20.00 here and $20.00 there for two days in advance. . .  I would have no cash if I won everything and nothing to show for it if I didn't win any of them!



It's not just eBay - winning at the last second is an inevitable consequence of having a timed event.  It happens in sports, games and any time of "competition".  I guarantee you that all suggestions I have heard on alternate ways of ending an auction or "elimating sniping" are flawed and if they were implemented, then equally "distasteful" (in the eyes of some) practices would surface.  There are always "loopholes" in the system.  There are always ways to best make a battle plan.  



As far as I'm concerned?  If there is something I really want, you had better make sure that your max bid is more than I'm willing to go, because I have a cable internet connection and up 3 browser windows open and ready to go.  I can get my bid recorded with 3 sec. to go (though 8 sec is better, just in case your max is a couple of pennies over mine, I can get in with another bid to cover the new minimum).



Of course, I never use "sniping software".  Where is the fun in winning unless you do it yourself!  Sometimes, my heart actually pounds loud and the adrenaline flows in the last few moments. . . it always a rush to win something you really want!  (And there is no "rush" in checking your email an hour after the auction to find out you won - it's all in the "sniping" baby!

Deimos3428 - I hear sentiments like you mentioned many times. I can not fathom how sniping can be viewed in such a way

It's called "sour grapes", DUH.  :wink: With a little idealism thrown in for good measure.

Winning an auction is like winning a game - you play within the rules an do what it takes to get the victory.

I don't think winning an auction is like winning a game, that's I suppose where our philosophies diverge.  I think "winning" an auction is a horrible misnomer used for marketing purposes (and way to go marketers, it's very pervasive!).  Since we don't agree on that base point, arguing further won't do much good.  



Basically, you're of the opinion that anything that doesn't break the rules is valid.  That's an ethical argument, and a correct one.  The moral argument is that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something.  This is also correct.

As far as I'm concerned? If there is something I really want, you had better make sure that your max bid is more than I'm willing to go, because I have a cable internet connection and up 3 browser windows open and ready to go. I can get my bid recorded with 3 sec. to go

Your cable internet connection and 3 browser windows cannot save you all of the time.  While that is quite impressive, I have an extremely low latency internet backbone connection @ 1 Gbps.  I do not have much time/money/desire to snipe, however.

Sniping also prevents other collectors from seeing what you are bidding on until it is too late. Thereby perhaps drawing less attention to the item.



I admit, I occasionally check the bidder list for eyeamgawd to see if he is bidding on anything interesting I may have missed.



I do not like sniping (it is bad for my blood pressure) but it is a necessary evil.

Here we go with the sniping thread again.



If you do not participate in sniping, you will rarely get the most desirable items listed on Ebay.  Live with it and participate, it is fun and brings some challenge to this hobby!!

Sniping is good because you have up until the last minute to change your mind!  LOL!



When you bid early on something, if another similar but better item comes along, you sit there hoping someone outbids you on the inferior item.  Sniping software also allows you to watch more items than ebay does.



Snipe or be sniped.  It's that simple.

Now, I am a defender of sniping...but...

I just got blasted off an R1...by an Acaeum member no less...

So much for honor among thieves... 8O  :D